tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post1951856619772996521..comments2024-03-28T23:47:18.748-05:00Comments on Brennan's Pen: What It Lacks: The Power of GodTom Brennanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07852945471625701378noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-52607945710939397722019-02-11T08:15:28.729-06:002019-02-11T08:15:28.729-06:00"Is fellowshipping with those who deny the Go..."Is fellowshipping with those who deny the Gospel the only grievous error an influential pastor can make with his influence?"<br /><br />Of course not but that seems to be your argument, at least fellowship with someone who may or may not fellowship with gospel denier can lead to a slippery slope of worshiping culture and fallowing the Holy spirit. Klinton Richersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04675559553155899594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-89349377799056439192019-02-10T23:56:09.805-06:002019-02-10T23:56:09.805-06:00He never said that with his post and I am not enou...He never said that with his post and I am not enough of a psychologist to read his mind beyond what he actually said. 😉Paul Zeronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362254323435216068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-9802630196252404802019-02-10T23:52:31.308-06:002019-02-10T23:52:31.308-06:00I might think that some methods are not as wise as...I might think that some methods are not as wise as other methods, but it truly is not the methods I was referring to. It was the <em>dependence</em> on methods. If I am depending on my very good method 37%, 59%, or 83.4%, then I am 37%, 59%, or 83.4% powerless. Here is a really funny clip that illustrates how at some point you think someone might be trying to hard: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98k05_bM2e4" rel="nofollow">How do you do, fellow kids?</a> I'm pretty sure I would called an Old Paths kind of guy, but my problem actually lies in developing an emotional way of reasoning and the extent to which our methods contribute to that. If we cater to the emotions then people are governed by how they feel and reason becomes irrelevant. After viewing Bro. Josh's <a rel="nofollow">Kick Off Service</a> I think it is an example of sending a mixed message: I'm cool, you're cool, we're having fun and feeling good, we're hip, doesn't matter what Bible version you use vs. truth is not subjective (I really liked the message about truth). Emotions are fine, but feelings should not guide our decisions, facts should. Once the facts are in then we can feel free to commit emotionally. We all know that all these things can be measured Biblically according to 1 Hezekiah 3:10 😉. Or...we could just recognize that anything can be used wrongly, some more so than others and we as stewards have to determine how much effort we are going to put into them.Paul Zeronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362254323435216068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-79169420697199264342019-02-10T23:17:34.048-06:002019-02-10T23:17:34.048-06:00"Borderline slanderous"? Bro. Jay, I thi..."Borderline slanderous"? Bro. Jay, I think Bro. Tom spoke a little quickly...but only a <em>little</em>. Please read your and his comments again. I really think that you have come down kind of hard on him.<br /><br />However, you also own a little bit of this problem. I thought your remarks were a little harsh. If Bro. Tom was hasty in any criticism, it is also important to not be hasty in a defense of Bro. Teis. You could have done what I did and do a google search.Over at <a href="https://www.mixcloud.com/OntheBox/an-unlikely-friendship/" rel="nofollow">Mixcloud</a> you can get a sense of Josh's ecumenical perspective. The whole audio is interesting but focus on the 20 minute mark where he discusses his purpose of doing Bible studies monthly with the rabbis is not to convert them but to merely love them. Now, having said that, when you listen to the whole audio, my statement about his purpose could be <em>very</em> misleading. I appreciated so much of what he said about — <br /><br />• hearing the rabbis' insights on OT passages<br />• his stand on the protection of Israel<br />• his condemnation of Replacement Theology<br />• his evangelical purpose to convert the world<br /><br />I can appreciate the setting Josh was in and the care he had to take in how he phrased things to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves." Nevertheless, the way he spoke about his relationship with them could just as easily leave someone with the idea that he has no intention of trying to bring them to Christ.<br /><br />In that light, Bro. Tom did not really make an extreme condemnation of Bro. Josh. In fact he tried to temper his statements when he denied thinking that Bro. Josh was establishing a trend. Surely Bro. Tom could have researched things further, but so could we all before we as pots call the kettle metal.<br />Paul Zeronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362254323435216068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-78015683891698725172019-02-09T17:32:01.705-06:002019-02-09T17:32:01.705-06:00As I sit here munching my popcorn and licking the ...As I sit here munching my popcorn and licking the salted butter from my fingers, it occurs to me that understanding the underlying basis of this series might be helpful. So I'm going to read your book. Don't want to pull a Proverbs 26:17. Be right back. Relatively speaking, that is. Tom Henrickshttps://thechurchwhereyoulive.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-59729098867445285582019-02-09T14:57:46.313-06:002019-02-09T14:57:46.313-06:00You are right. I apologize. I shouldn't have m...You are right. I apologize. I shouldn't have mentioned it without the ability to back it up.Tom Brennanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07852945471625701378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-77076604749881378502019-02-09T13:45:38.230-06:002019-02-09T13:45:38.230-06:00I really don't mean to have a harsh, fighting ...I really don't mean to have a harsh, fighting spirit, but this is ridiculous.<br /><br />At what "degree" of dependence does it officially become powerless? What is the measuring stick? How do you know the neos are "overemphasizing methods"? Does that mean it is okay to emphasize them to some "degree"? When is it "over"?<br /><br />Let's say your song service lasts 15 minutes. Is it overemphasizing the method of music of their "worship" lasts 30 minutes? What is it lasts 45 minutes but the preaching time is 45 minutes as well?<br /><br />The truth is the problem the "old paths" have with the "neos" is the methods themselves. These other arguments are hardly definable and certainly not biblically measurable. Go after the CCM biblically. Go after the casual dress biblically. No music theory, history, or missions stories.Jay Nepomucenonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-61848048518033853012019-02-09T13:30:11.993-06:002019-02-09T13:30:11.993-06:00"Well, I could talk about the rabbi he recent..."Well, I could talk about the rabbi he recently invited to share his platform but I won't."<br /><br />"I don't remember, I'm sorry."<br /><br />First statement is borderline slanderous then since, in reality, you CAN'T talk about that at all. These types of inflammatory statements have marked "our side" (really hate to put it that way) for too long.Jay Nepomucenonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-36045443460797056752019-02-08T13:41:22.617-06:002019-02-08T13:41:22.617-06:00I don't remember, I'm sorry.I don't remember, I'm sorry. Tom Brennanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07852945471625701378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-6354743071066357222019-02-08T13:18:18.936-06:002019-02-08T13:18:18.936-06:00You’ve mentioned this rabbi several times. In what...You’ve mentioned this rabbi several times. In what capacity was he at Josh’s church? The only information I could find is that Josh has a close friendship with a rabbi. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455869953293005267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-73558939823832978162019-02-08T10:41:50.860-06:002019-02-08T10:41:50.860-06:00"PLEASE show me when Josh corporately fellows..."PLEASE show me when Josh corporately fellowshiped with gospel deniers."<br /><br />Well, I could talk about the rabbi he recently invited to share his platform but I won't. I don't think that decision indicates a trend in his direction. Instead I will ask you this question: Is fellowshipping with those who deny the Gospel the only grievous error an influential pastor can make with his influence?Tom Brennanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07852945471625701378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-72223643099194060272019-02-08T10:33:38.101-06:002019-02-08T10:33:38.101-06:00I am interested in this conversation but I am stru...I am interested in this conversation but I am struggling with the lack of grace and the search for understanding shown in these articles. And the amount of assumptions that are being made. There has been little facts given (you might have some but not given)on how Josh has error from the faith. Only opinions and assumptions derived from your opinions.<br /><br />Go ahead and talk about how some newer methods can may be a slippery slope. I may or may not agree with that. But that could be an argument. Talk about relying on methods is not relying on the holy spirit. <br /><br />BUT DO NOT SAY new methods = water-down scripture. Or new methods = NOT seeking the Holy spirit's power.<br /><br />Yes, I know you are going say he did not say that in the post. BUT, you all are righting with the presupposition that God has confirmed this in your hearts. <br /><br />I trust these posts are written from a heart of love and grace, but you are struggling to show this. <br /><br />PLEASE show me when Josh corporately fellowshiped with gospel deniers. When Josh watered down his scripture.<br /><br />I am not saying what you are saying is wrong but you are doing lots of assuming. AND FROM THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN it looks like you are not happy that Josh is not doing it the same way you would do it. <br /><br />Does this view make sense or am I just off my rocker. Klinton Richersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04675559553155899594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-66881152741801938082019-02-08T10:19:47.924-06:002019-02-08T10:19:47.924-06:00That my one of my dilemma in the post. Does newer ...That my one of my dilemma in the post. Does newer methods 100% equals water down scripture. Go ahead and talk about some newer methods can maybe be a slippery slope. I may or may not agree with that. But that could be an argument. Talk about relying on methods is not relying on the holy spirit. <br /><br />BUT DO NOT SAY new methods = water-down scripture. Or new methods = NOT seeking the Holy spirits power.<br /><br />Yes, I know you are going say he did not say that. BUT, you all are righting with the presupposition that the God has confirmed this in your hearts. Klinton Richersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04675559553155899594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-5413784408873303622019-02-08T08:58:05.852-06:002019-02-08T08:58:05.852-06:00I think that if there are any statements that appe...I think that if there are any statements that appear extreme it would be best to hear the tempering language and tone of the whole article. However, Imanuel's argument is very clear.<br /><br /><br />• The power of God is in preaching, not methods.<br />• To the degree that churches depend on methods, they are operating without the power of God (which can be said of 100% every church>.<br />• The New Independent Baptists appear to be overemphasizing methods.<br /><br /><br />Even if someone does not think that New Independent Baptists have gone that far, the warning is still important.Paul Zeronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362254323435216068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-88509259404921560022019-02-06T11:10:13.846-06:002019-02-06T11:10:13.846-06:00I was not contentious first sir, I gave a challeng...I was not contentious first sir, I gave a challenge based on hermeneutics. Your reaction to my challenge showed evident hostility, and that has continued. <br />Mr. Diaz, you are attacking me and my faith personally due to a disagreement, which is something fundamentalism has a bad reputation for. I will not call you ignorant, or high minded, or suggest that you need more humility and Holy Spirit because you disagree with me. I know that the IFB is full of dedicated followers of Christ and disagreements need not be hostile among those who serve the same Lord. I only ask for the same courtesy. <br /><br />The proverbs possibly do have the widest application of any book in the Bible, but they must still be interpreted before being applied, and the same goes for all of scripture. If the application falls outside of the interpretation, can it be claimed to be biblical? I learned my hermeneutics in a respected fundamentalist institution, and I take the business of rightly dividing the Word very seriously. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455869953293005267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-86403927607306951362019-02-06T10:45:00.050-06:002019-02-06T10:45:00.050-06:00I am King James ONLY. But we must be very careful...I am King James ONLY. But we must be very careful to rightly divide these preciously preserved words of truth. Durandalkski is absolutely correct in his interpretation of the passage. But I do agree with you that scripture (especially the Proverbs) can have a number of applications. But there are limits to that. While you gave no commentary on the passage, we can only assume you are making application on "meddle not with them given to change". But if you choose to apply that to or worship style/methodology, you're creating serious problems for us. I'm assuming you don't use a sackbut or cymbals during your congregational singing time. And maybe safer to assume that your congregation does not live communally. We have changed over the millenia.Jay Nepomucenonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-20044023788170986162019-02-05T21:18:57.895-06:002019-02-05T21:18:57.895-06:00Also Durandalski, must you be remind that "2 ...Also Durandalski, must you be remind that "2 Timothy 3:16 KJV<br />All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" especially proverbs which have wide applications and arent necessary limited to specific context. Isaac Diazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555634706020456024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-47852985120366693812019-02-05T21:18:30.946-06:002019-02-05T21:18:30.946-06:00Also Durandalski, must you be remind that "2 ...Also Durandalski, must you be remind that "2 Timothy 3:16 KJV<br />All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" especially proverbs which have wide applications and arent necessary limited to specific context. Isaac Diazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555634706020456024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-89206485945389152832019-02-05T21:04:57.263-06:002019-02-05T21:04:57.263-06:00According to you? You think far too much of yourse...According to you? You think far too much of yourself sir and far too less of the HOLY WORD of GOD. Thats evident in your contentious high- mindedness and in your choice Bible version. Either is out of arrogance or ignorance. Regardless, humble yourself and decrease so that the HOLY GHOST will increase and fill you. Isaac Diazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555634706020456024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-88069814386076886772019-02-05T17:35:30.228-06:002019-02-05T17:35:30.228-06:00I note with interest that you made no effort to sa...I note with interest that you made no effort to say that my interpretation was wrong. <br /><br />I'm not debating the Bible version issue right now, I'll save that for the inevitable article that's coming. I do think that it would be odd for the Holy Ghost to reveal to you an interpretation outside the context of a verse. That's more of Pentecostal thing. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455869953293005267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-12151836443378567072019-02-05T16:53:14.828-06:002019-02-05T16:53:14.828-06:00I dont need you to " correctly" interpre...I dont need you to " correctly" interpret that verse for me. I have the HOLY GHOST to do that. I also have a HOLY BIBLE: the KJV. Not a watered down, corrupted and perverted, and compromised version ( whatever else that may be ). Ill stand on the unadulterated version that has true and perfect authority.<br /> Isaac Diazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555634706020456024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-78785390038857496812019-02-05T16:14:21.614-06:002019-02-05T16:14:21.614-06:00This writer of this article is completely MISINFOR...This writer of this article is completely MISINFORMED about his topic. Thank you for pointing out the absolute need for God's power. You are correct in sharing that we need Him to revitalize our churches. The funny thing is you'll be surprised to know this was the exact content of Thom Rainer's keynote address at Idea Day. Sorry you feel this way looking from the outside. I hope you will spend some time with your "Neo" pastor friends and come to find out we are all serving the same Savior with the same goals. The three best ideas that I took away from Idea Day were these three questions for reflection: 1. How or what is your prayer life? 2. How or what is your evangelistic life? 3. How or what is your family life? This has been the emphasis at all "neo" events I have attended. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01240745800022409225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-16607486301931499062019-02-05T15:13:32.504-06:002019-02-05T15:13:32.504-06:00Herein lies the weakness of the over focus on indi...Herein lies the weakness of the over focus on individual words and sentences in the Bible combined with the reliance on a translation using old English. The context of "meddle not with them that are given to change" is "My son, fear thou the LORD and the king:" IE don't meddle with those given change from fearing the Lord and the king. In the time it was written that would have been how that was read, but read with modern English glasses you applied this verse where it does not fit. My translation says it in plain English: "My son, fear the Lord and the king, and do not join with those who do otherwise." I love the old King James to death, but I see it misused too often. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455869953293005267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-61841757827694028352019-02-04T15:33:51.614-06:002019-02-04T15:33:51.614-06:00Yes sir, that broad brush always paints an ugly pi...Yes sir, that broad brush always paints an ugly picture. And I'm actually one more inclined to preserving a more conservative approach to ministry (without labeling more progressive brethren enemies). I hope it's not all downhill from here.<br /><br />In essence, here's what we've got:<br />Part 1 - There's nothing wrong with my grandpa's religion. (I'm okay with that. But I'm sure grandpa would want us to update the flooring in the church and maybe even use blogs or twitter.)<br />Part 2 - Neos are not the enemy. (Certainly really appreciate the spirit of this post)<br />Part 3 - This is not new. (Yup. I was shouting "Walk! In the Old Paths!" during the big split of the BBF centering Pacific Coast BBC.)<br />Part 4 - Don't need cultural relevance. (Another really bad broad brush/blanket statement. Of course we need some form of cultural relevance, lest we become a fringe group.)<br />Part 5 - Neos lack the power of God. (So there's no way these tech savvy cross fit bros spend time begging God for His power? Wow.)Jay Nepomucenonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2550425372402510047.post-28206090856914565082019-02-04T15:19:38.821-06:002019-02-04T15:19:38.821-06:00FTR, I'm the UNKNOWN just above that "Res...FTR, I'm the UNKNOWN just above that "Respectfully disagreed."Jay Nepomucenonoreply@blogger.com